Period spinning methods

I have been trying to learn how to spin in a more period way off and on for ages.  Today as I was researching something else entirely, I came across a fantastic video showing one approach in slow motion!  Yay!  You can see it here at the 15thcenturyspinning blog.  She demonstrates a method of in-hand spinning that looks like the artwork and make a very good and well reasoned argument against modern drop spinning being using in period (in this case 15th century Europe).

I'm pretty excited about trying this out.  I think her method will work well with the reproduction spindle whorls and sticks that I have, which don't tend to spin as long and also don't (usually) have hooks or notches.  This makes using modern methods difficult, and once I add in a distaff I'm pretty much a mess.

So in addition to never-ending hemming (see my last post), mundane job hunting, and a new project for an upcoming class (more on this later) I'm pretty excited.

New Frilled Veil

Good grief I have not posted in a long time! Suffice it to say, Life Happened. I've moved 3 times since I wrote last, first to California, then again in California, and most recently to Oregon where I will hopefully be staying for a good long time. In the midst of all that, I have not been working on very many projects.

I did decided that I needed to make a new frilled veil. The first one that I did had a small frill which held up well without starch but it went all limp and sad after I washed it. I think it really does need to be starched after I wash it, so once I get some earplugs or something to put in the pleats I will give this a shot.

In the mean time I need a new one that will not need starching and hopefully hold up better to washing.  I also harbor a deep and not-so-secret desires for a ridiculous fluffy veil, but again being able to wash the thing once in awhile would be nice.  Cathrin at Katafalk made a lovely non-starched frilled veil a couple of years ago, which I am excited about as it is 1 - not starched and 2 - detachable!  Making the frill removable will help a lot with my washing issue, as I've found that the frill itself is not what gets dirty fastest, but the flat veil section.   Elina at Neulakko's version has somewhat deeper/larger frills (I have a big frill/buns problem as well) and it looks wonderful.

I have managed to cut out my frills and have been hemming and hemming and hemming.  I'm going for a four-layer look which seems to have been popular and should work well with my no-starch plan as the extra fabric will, hopefully, help to support itself.  It does seem that having frills front and back is a bit more common so that's what I'm planning to do. (check out my pintrest board for a collection of relevant images and links) This thing is going to be substantial!

For those of you new the whole frilled veil phenomenon, Isis Sturtewagen did a master's thesis on these as well as a number of other articles.

Something New

Eight months ago I was elevated to the Order of the Laurel  (if you are not involved in or interested in the SCA, this post might be very dull and possibly a little confusing).  This is the highest form of recognition one can get for artistic work within the SCA.  In my case, I was "laureled" for my textile work, weaving, spinning, needle arts, pretty much anything to do with thread.  There are a lot of things I can do very well, but having received my laurel does not mean I can do ALL things very well.

And thus my current point.  I am good at weaving and spinning and embroidery.  I know about these things, can do them with some level of proficiency (though I am always trying to get better at it), and can talk about them in an intelligent sort of way.  However, I do not excel at many other things and there are lots of things I don't know the first thing about (metalsmithing for example).  I do like to try these things out, I like to learn and expand my knowledge.  Trying new things is fun.

Trying new things when people think you are an "expert" at "stuff" is intimidating and sharing the results of those early attempts is, frankly, terrifying.

Just like anyone else, I and every Laurel out there, have a learning curve.  Just because I am a type A, overachieving sort of person, like any other Laurel (or Knight or Pelican for that matter) that I know does not mean I do not have to go through the same beginner struggles that everyone else has.  I am just a little more reticent to share them, after all don't people think I should be doing "Laurel quality" work?  Or at least Pearl/whatever your local GOA level A&S award is work?  No one can start in the middle, however hard we may try.

There is always a first step and it's usually a pretty darn shaky one.  There are those prodigies in any art that seem never to struggle with the basics, but even they had to start at the beginning.  However hard I have always tried to run before I could even stand, I've always had to learn to stand and then walk first.

And so the idea of sharing the first steps (or ever the first 10 or 12 of them) of any new endeavor becomes that much more terrifying.  I know that I expect too much of myself, I always have, but do others expect me to produce work in other arts at the same level as my Peers in those arts?  Does the world think my starting point has shifted up a rung or three?  Do I?  Will Everyone Else think that I'm a fraud or my peerage is a joke?  Will I?

No, they won't and I won't because we all have to start someplace and none of us can be a expert at All The Things.

So I will share with you my first efforts at illumination.  This is most certainly NOT a thing I have been nor do I ever expect to be recognized for.  It's a thing I learned to do first because there is always a need for it within in the SCA, particularly at the local level, and second because it challenges and fascinates me.  I am not naturally good at drawing, I never have been.  But I love art and creating things of beauty so I've picked up a brush and some paints (and god help us all a calligraphy pen) and I will learn.  These are my first steps.  This is not "Laurel quality" work.  But I am learning and improving at my own pace, just like everyone else.  And darn it I'm pretty pleased with how these have turned out.

We all of judge ourselves more harshly than others judge us, and more harshly than we deserve.  We all of us have to begin at the beginning.  I think it is important for those who have been recognized in one field to remind themselves of that and let others know that we too are human and we too were beginners once.  If we, as peers, are doing our jobs right we will always be beginners at something.

Haithabu Towel and the joys of cold mangling

Over the summer I was asked to weave a towel for a peerage elevation for a woman I have a tremendous amount of respect for. She has an iron age Danish persona (i.e. Viking, but I sort of hate that term as most people in the SCA use it) and has taught several classes on the garments of the Haithabu (Hedeby) finds, so I did the towel using a 2/2 twill check based on a wool fragment from the dig.  There were in fact linen checked fragments from the same find, however the rep weave (plain tabby) seemed very dull so I went with the wool example.

The towel was woven with 20/2 linen for both warp and weft, with the contrasting colors done in 8/2 Cottolin.  From the pictures I have been able to find of the original fragment, it seems that the chevrons in the twill are somewhat irregular, so I replicated by changing my threading direction at random.

Where I really stretched myself with this project was in the finishing.  The towels/napkins were cut off the loom and hemmed as usual, but I got out my lovely glass smoothing stone and decided to see how it worked on handwoven fabric.

Smoothing stones, often made of glass like mine, have been found all over iron age Europe.  The smoother would have been used in conjunction with a wooden smoothing board and operates in much the same way as a modern cold mangle*.  It's just much, much, much slower.  The smoother is rubbed firmly over the cloth, compressing the linen fibers and polishing them.  This takes a fair bit of time and upper body strength.  If nothing else, mangling fabric this way will give you nice upper arms.

The difference in the hand and texture of the cloth was truly amazing!  It's not that easy to see in the pictures, but the mangled fabric is smooth, lustrous, and almost liquid in it's drape while the unmangled cloth is rough and rather sad by comparison.  No amount of steam ironing will produce the same smooth, slick appearance.

*Cold mangles operate by rolling fabric between heavy,smooth rollers, usually stone.  You can still find these in homes in parts of northern Europe, but the practice seems to have totally died out in the United States.  Linen sheets and table cloths (by which I mean all textiles used on the table, not just the largest one) were finished this way after laundering to give them that characteristic cool, smooth linen feel.  I have also found reference to mangle boards and rollers, which accomplish the same thing only with more upper body strength and less equipment.  The cloth is rolled onto a hard wood dowel, much like a giant rolling pin, and then pressed and rolled back and forth with a smooth wooden board.  So far I have not been able to show that mangle boards were in use during the SCA period, though they certainly were by the end of the 17th century.  It stands to reason these, like three-legged stools and spindle sticks, might not survive in the archaeological record due to their highly utilitarian function.  Linen presses, which again accomplish the same thing only by means of plates and a large screw mechanism, date back to Roman times.

Another Queen's Shawl

My latest large weaving project was another spinner's guild queen's shawl.  I've posted about this in the past but for those of you new to the program, I am a member of the Society for Creative Anachronism, a medieval recreation group.  In my kingdom, Atlantia, we have a spinners guild (the Company of the Silver Spindle) of which I am a part.  Every time we have a new, first-time queen, the guild spins wool to weave a shawl for that queen.  This is the third such shawl project for which I have done the weaving.

I have done a shocking lack of research for this particular shawl (I got a bad case of I'm-a-peer-now-I don't-have-to), rather I chose a structure that looked pretty and interesting (M's and W's).  As it turns out, M's and W's is a period threading, but the reason I don't have sources is that most of them are in German or Danish or some other language I do not speak.  Also I only have a 4-shaft loom and many of the extant textiles are done on 8 or more shafts.  There is a good article on one such pattern in this issue of Medieval Textiles.

Molly the Wonder Pup "helping" me warp the loom
She "helps" with the weaving and spinning
as well.

The most interesting thing (to me anyway) about the M's and W's threading is the huge range of complex looking patterns you can get from just one threading.  I chose a fairly simple treadling pattern for the shawl, but one which I think turned out well.

The warp is two-ply handspun superwash wool and the weft is a light grey Jaggerspun Heather.  The current queen's colors are blue and white.  In heraldry, white is technically silver so I elected to use the grey which I think provides lovely contract but also more depth than a flat white would have done.  The warp was set at 16 EPI.

The finished piece has very nice drape and an amazing sheen.  Overall I am pleased though I am still hoping to do at least one shawl project that is closer in structure to a period textile (singles throughout, documentable two-color wool weave).  It would be really amazing to do one on the warp weighted loom with appropriate headers and everything.  I'm not quite there yet with the WW loom but it's good to have goals.

Tips for Spinning for Weaving:

This little guide is intended to provide some basic information for members of the SCA’s Kingdom of Atlantia spinning guild, who handspin and weave a shawl for each new queen. Group projects like this can be intimidating, but a bit of information and some practice anyone who has successfully met the requirements for the Guild’s apprentice level (even if they have not submitted their packet yet) should be able to participate.

Spinning for weaving need not be frightening or complicated. By and large, weavers want many of the same things from their yarns as do knitters, just on a slightly smaller scale. A nice, lofty worsted weight knitting yarn may produce a lovely sweater but will make a very thick, stiff and dense fabric when woven. Conversely, high twist singles produce knitting with a sharp bias and unpleasant hand, but work beautifully on a loom.

 First a few terms.

Grist - usually stated as yards per pound, refers to the relationship between weight and length. The higher the grist, the finer the yarn. This NOT exactly the same thing as yarn numbers (8/2, 20/1, etc)
Twist per inch or twist rate - how many turns are put into the yarn over a given length or period of time? Twist rate will influence grist as well as the relative hardness of the yarn. The main thing that makes a yarn strong is the amount of twist. High-twist yarns will be firmer and stronger than low-twist.
Wraps Per Inch (WPI) - measures yarn diameter. Usually used by knitters to determine the the gauge of the yarn, can also be used to determine grist.
Warp - The lengthwise lengths of thread or yarn attached to the loom. Warp threads are manipulated using heddles (usually metal) to create woven patterns. Warp threads tend to be under significant tension and can be abraded by the workings of the loom.
Weft - Width-wise threads used to produce cloth. Weft threads are wound around a bobbin or a shuttle stick and pass back and forth between the warp threads. Very little tension is placed on these threads.
Yarn Numbers - You will often see weaving yarns labeled with odd little fractions or ratios, like 8/2 or 20/1. These numbers contain two different pieces of information. The larger number refers to the number of hanks of a pre-set length that make up a pound. This standard hank size varies a bit based on the fiber but the number always refers to singles. The smaller number refers to the number of plies. So a 20/2 yarn and an 10/1 yarn would be about the same length. These numbers can be useful but are generally not helpful to the beginning weaver. What matters is yard per pound (the actual grist of the completed yarn) and the number of plies. In general, the higher the number, the finer the yarn. 

Singles: 
Singles are wonderful for period weaving! In our period, nearly all woven fabrics were made with singles for both warp and weft (there are a few exceptions, but the general practice seems to have been to weave with singles in nearly all cases). Here are just a few reasons (other than historical accuracy) why working with singles on a loom can work better than plied yarns:

1. Time - you spend less than half as much time spinning. With no need to create a second ply then ply your singles together, you will get much more bang for your spinning buck 
2. Grist - You do not have to spin frog-hair singles to stack together into the right weight of yarn, just spin to the target grist and you are done 
3. Balance - when weaving, we do not need to worry about perfectly balanced yarns (i.e. those that will not bias when knitting). Extra twist will even out in the weaving process and be locked into place by the interaction of warp and weft. Extra twist can even make the finished cloth smoother as there tend to be fewer loose ends of fibers in higher twist yarns. High-energy yarns can also be used to create interesting textural patterns. 
4. A little more room for variation - because you are not stacking multiple strands of yarn together, there is a little more room for variation in your singles yarn in a weaving project. Any thick or thin sections in the single are wrapped around equally variable singles in the plying process, sometimes balancing them out but also often compounding the variation. When weaving, these large swings in grist can become very problematic and are nearly impossible to correct for. With the smaller, smoother singles it is easier to spread out the variation and still produce a consistent, unified looking cloth. 

Slow Down! 
When trying to match a yarn, be it someone else's handspun or a commercial yarn, do not let yourself fly on autopilot. Slow down, take time to breath, and let yourself pay attention to the small nuances of what you are doing. Yes, this will be a challenge at first, but you will find a rhythm and the process will smooth out and speed up as you continue to work. This is especially critical with group projects, as great swings in variation can be detrimental to the finished project.

Keep Samples Close: 
If you are trying to spin a nice consistent yarn, keep samples of the target yarn close to hand when spinning. I like to keep an index card with small lengths of both the component singles AND the plied yarn next to my wheel when working on large projects so that I remain consistent. It takes very little effort or thought to compare what is going into the wheel orifice and what is on my sample card if the two things are close together.

Twist Direction:
This is really important! Pay attention to twist direction (usually you will see this described or Z or S spun). If you have a sample you are trying to match, make sure you are spinning in the same direction. Variations in direction can make some interesting patterns when used with deliberation but can look a hot mess if not intended.

 In many period wool textiles, you will see different twist direction used for warp and weft, which produces a firmer and stronger fabric than one in which all threads have the same twist direction. Where all threads have the same direction of twist, the cloth will be more lustrous and softer. It seems like a small thing but it can impact how well the finished cloth holds together and the overall appearance of the project. Modern spinner/weavers often play with twist direction when designing textiles but this is done with a high degree of intentionality to produce a pleasing cloth.

“Aging” your singles
 Like wine, singles benefit from a bit of aging. This means leaving the finished singles on the bobbin for a day or more before winding it off into skeins or onto weaving bobbins. You will notice that fresh singles tend to have a more uneven distribution of twist than those that are allowed to age a bit 

Twists Per Inch:
I usually don’t think about this much at all except when choosing the right ratio setting on my spinning wheel. My fingers monitor this almost automatically. However, if you are consistently producing yarns that are too hard or too soft, or singles that fall apart, you may want to give TPI some thought. Switching your wheel to a lower drive ratio will usually solve the problem of over-hard yarns, likewise a higher ratio will help with soft, weak yarns. Sometimes you may need to adjust your rate of treadling.

Remember that a smooth, strong worsted yarn will have more TPI than a soft, loftly woolen yarn. Note that if you are spinning yarns for warp (the lengthwise yarns on a loom, which are under a great deal of tension) you will need to spin higher twist yarns. Twist is what determines yarn strength, and warp needs to be fairly strong. It also needs to be fairly smooth, which you can control with twist. 

Angle of Twist
In looking at extant textile fragments, you will often see the yarns described as having a given angle of twist. By and large, this works out to telling you something about the twists per inch. A yarn with a 45 degree angle of twist is more tightly spun than one with a 30 degree angle of twist. This can be hard to measure, but it’s not impossible. There are twist gauges out there and Knitty has put together a good guide here  that will suffice for most projects. (if you like math, this is a great post explaining all about twist in yarn)

Much like twists per inch, angle of twist comes down to wheel ratios and speed. If your twist angle is too shallow, speed up your treadling or switch to a higher drive ratio. If it’s too steep, go lower. You will eventually train your fingers to feel when you have achieved the right angle of twist in your spinning.

Use a Yarn Balance
A yarn balance, usually called a McMorran Balance, is used to measure grist (yards per pound). The balance is a small plastic scale that will help you determine how much yardage you have in a skein of yarn and also if you have achieved the target balance of twist and diameter. The tool is not expensive (less than $30) and will help you become a more proficient technical spinner.  You really should have one of these in your kit even if you never spin for a weaving project.

Expand your Drafting Repertoire
Most of us have a drafting technique that we are more comfortable with and can do almost without thinking. Take the time to practice both long and short draw drafting. A short draw, typically used for worsted yarns, will generally work better for weaving yarns as the yarn is smoother and firmer than that produced by long draw. A nice smooth yarn will produce a nice smooth fabric. Lofty yarns are going to produce loftier fabrics which may be more prone to pilling and excessive fulling but are great for knitted garments.

Fibers 
In period, woven textiles were made out of all kinds of fibers, wool and linen being the most common in Northern Europe. Typically, for a group project you will be given prepared fiber to spin. If you need to select fiber to spin for weaving, here a few things to keep in mind:

1. Long staple lengths work best for spinning warp. This is not to say they cannot be used for weft, but if you are trying to spin warp specifically you want a longer fiber. In wool fabrics, you will typically see the long fibers from dual coated sheep (tog) used for warp, while the short downy thel is used for the weft. Linen should all be from long strick, rather than small short cuts. 
2. Preparation matters. You should be familiar with this idea from learning about woolen vs. worsted spinning. By and large, worsted will make a nicer finish cloth. Worsted yarns are made from combed fibers and then spun short draw. Woolen yarns are made from carded batts and spun long draw. For weaving, combed fibers will usually produce a better result regardless of spinning technique. 
3. Predrafting is your friend.  When working with commercial prepared top or sliver, I often find it easier to spin a consistent yarn if I break the length of wool into smaller section then split them lengthwise to create something like pencil roving. Drafting is easier as the fibers are loosened up a bit, and you have less bulk to manage in the drafting zone. 
4. Superwash should be avoided. Because superwash wool it treated so that it does not full, it can be difficult to finish the cloth once it comes off the loom. The warp and weft will not lock together properly, resulting in a cloth prone to fraying. It can work out ok for a shawl type project, but ONLY if the warp is regular wool and the handspun superwash is left soft enough to have some grab. A better option if you wish to avoid excessive fulling is to use a wool blended with silk or some other non-felting fiber. 

In short, take some time to practice and gain control of your spinning tools.  This will help you become a better spinner and produce exactly the yarn you want for whatever project you are working on.  This is a process and you should be getting better and more controlled over time, but also keep in mind that the beauty of the shawl projects is that you can see the work of many hands.  Each skein is a little bit unique and that adds to the beauty of the project.  Our goal is make it easier for you to participate in these projects and produce something that will add to the beauty of the whole.

Recommended Reading:
I have found these books to be invaluable in learning to spin.  There are also a number of resources on YouTube if you are a more visual learner or want tips on specific techniques.

The Alden Amos Big Book of Handspinning: Being A Compendium of Information, Advice, and Opinions On the Noble Art & Craft by Alden Amos. Interweave Press, 2001
Probably the most complete book out there on handspinning. Includes all you need to know about working with any fiber as well as wheel maintenance and fiber preparation. It’s the spinning Bible.

The Spinners Companion by Bobbie Irwin. Interweave Press, 2001
Handy small reference. Lots of good tips, not as complete as Alden Amos but a good quick reference. Currently available in a Kindle edition as well, which is free is you have KindleUnlimited.

The Ashford Book of Spinning by Anne Field, SHoal Bay Press, 1986
Concise and clear instructions for all the basics of spinning and fiber preparation. Very beginner friendly.

Hand Woolcombing and Spinning: A Guide to Worsteds from the Spinning Wheel by Peter Teal. Robin and Russ Handweavers, 1993.
Every last thing you might ever want to know about spinning perfect worsted yarns. The author is very passionate about his subject and provides a lot of really great information that will improve the quality of your spinning. Probably don’t need this unless you want to comb fibers as well, but if that’s the case this is a great book.  There is now a Kindle edition of this which should be very handy.

Silk Banners! Or, this Oda Cannot Draw a Straight Line

Yesterday I spend the afternoon with a couple of SCA friends (my former peer and her husband) working on a new silk banner.  To be strictly correct, it's currently my ONLY silk banner, they were working on replacing/augmenting their current silk banners.  Always nice to have someone who knows what they are doing when you doing something like this for the first time!

The motto translates as Shadows Pass, Light Remains.
A good reminder for me right now, and it reminds me a little
of the Litany Against Fear from Dune

We made large silk pennons which we will probably fly from our pavilions or from poles next to them.   I'm not 100% sure that silk painting in this manner is strictly period, but from what I've been able to fine the style of banner is and the idea of painting fabric to make a banner of some sort is, and this being the SCA no one seems much to care beyond that.  The silk looks lovely fluttering in the breeze and is actually very easy to paint with modern silk painting materials.

There are a number of good websites on how to do these types of banners.  It's a lot of fun and quite easy to do.  The most difficult part is stretching the silk.  We have two styles of frame to start with, one of wood and another of PVC with integrated legs.  Even with the legs, the PVC was much less expensive to construct, easier to build and move around, more adjustable, and easier to store.  The silk was cut to something close to size, attached with rubber bands and large safety pins (though you could also sew it on to the frame the way you attach fabric to an embroidery frame) and you are ready to go!

We also found it helpful to have several yard sticks (and a couple of old leese sticks, we're all weavers so these are plentiful) to support the paper we had drawn our designs on while tracing with the resist and to rest our hands on while painting.  Unfortunately I didn't take in-progress photos but again, there is a lot of good information out there.

Overall I am really happy with how this turned out.  The wool combs from my arms could stand to be a little larger, and there isn't a straight line to be found, but once flying in the wind no one will notice. There are also a couple of small drip spots and bleed overs, but again you can't see them from a distance.  We found that the darker colors covered up the light color drips/bleeds very well, and that once one color dried it created a bit of a dam for the adjacent colors.  Not as good a break as the resist, but it worked pretty well.

I'll be doing wool applique for my next banner project.  I know that both methodology and application are correct for my time period in this case, and it will create a heavier piece suitable for hanging on the wall of my tent or displaying as an actual banner with all the necessary hoists and supports.

Some resources:
Midrelm article on Banners, Standards and Pennons
How to Paint Silk Banners (PDF file, very good instructions!)
Flags and Banners in the SCA (another PDF, great overview of various shapes)
Dharma Trading Co. (for all the supplies!  Great place to get Dynaflow paints, gutta resist, and even silk to make your banner, plus lots of instructions on how to use whatever products you choose.  We used these paints - http://www.dharmatrading.com/paints/dye-na-flow-fabric-paint.html)

Breast Bag thoughts

Much and more has been written already about the Lengberg Castle "bras."  I'm not going to rehash any of that except to say it seems fairly certain that by at least the 15th century wearing some sort of supportive undergarment *other than* a fitted gown was not unknown.  I've been playing around with making one of these for the better part of a year now and here are some thoughts.  I've set up a pintrest board on period undies and another on modern undies to collect images and helpful links, rather than overburdening this page.

1. It appears that "lifted and separated" was the the ideal boob shape for most of the period I am interested in.  This really cannot be accomplished with a fitted gown*, which gives you more of a mono-boob shape.  Furthermore there is plenty of textual evidence for breast-shaping garments (and surgery!!  WTF??) in the later middle ages which suggests to me that a breast-bag garment is more likely to have been employed than a super tight gown.

2.  There is more than one way to bag a breast.  The "long line bra" option is but one of four breast-bag garments that were found.  It seems to have gotten the most press as it looks the most like a modern bra, but looking at visual sources as well as what is available on the find themselves suggests that many means of lifting and separating were possible.  Just like we have lots of bra styles today, both for fashions sake and to accommodate different anatomy, they did the same thing back then (and why ever not?  People in any given period of time face the same basic challenges and needs).

3. This one is my favorite - modern bras and bra making can teach us a whole heck of a lot about how to actually construct a plausible period breast bag.  Again, the basic facts of anatomy have not changed.  Breasts are what they are and there are some basic rules about constructing supportive and shaping garments that do not change regardless of time period or shape being sought.  This is not to say a corset-is-a-corset or that a bra-is-a-bra, but in either case the garment is being supported at the waist line in the case of a corset or at the underbust line in the case of something bra-like.

Understanding the importance of the bra band and how to get the center point of a bra to tack (that is, sit flush against the rib cage) makes fitting a period style breast bag MUCH easier.  Keeping in mind that my breasts are on the heavy side (another thing I would not have known without a foray into modern bra making), the bust band must 1 - exist and 2 - be snug/tight.  This makes fitting the cups or bags much easier and proper support possible.  It's also what does the lifting.  The separating comes from how the cups/bags are arranged and fit on the body.

Once you figure out the band, you need to take a good hard look at your breasts and figure out where the root of the breast is (towards the center?  under your arm? someplace in between?)  and how much space you are working with at the center front.  The first version of the Lengberg bra I made had way too much space between the cups, which prevented the band from tacking and allowed my breasts to creep out from under the cups.  The current version has less space, but the band is still too loose so I am not taking but I am not falling out the bottom either.  Figuring out where to make adjustments to get better fit is not as obvious (or at least wasn't to me) but there is a certain logic to bra fitting and it's easier to see after playing around with actual bra patterns.   There are fitting instructions for these things after all, why not apply that accumulated knowledge?

4 - Tacking.  As I mentioned above, the idea of tacking is that the center portion of a bra (where the two underwires come together on a modern bar) should lay flat against the sternum.  This happens when the band is snug enough and the cups are sitting on the actual breast rather than starting too far to one side or the other of the breast root.  A properly fit bra that tacks is a marvel and if you have never had this happen I highly encourage you to put down the computer, go find a specialty bra shop, and get fitted.  With soft cup bras, this is not as likely to happen as there is nothing rigid for the band to pull against the body, but you should still not have inches of space between the band and your chest between the cups.  Some things that seem to work to get this to happen on a breast bag type garment are 1 - making sure the band is snug 2 - getting the center height and width right and  3 - making sure you are working with the right shape garment for your particular breasts.  

It's all about understanding your breast shape really.  Just like with outer garments, you've got to work with the body you have.  The first step in a well fit garment will always be understanding the shape of the body that will occupy it.

*assuming you have sufficient breast-mass to need help in this area